Neo: There seems to be quite a bit of discord here between different aspects of ourself. For our benefit I would suggest that each party apologize to the other and ask for their forgiveness. If that is not possible and you feel you have to get the last word in, you do us all a disservice. At the very least, just do not respond to the next attack.
Dan: Now, neo, have you made yourself one of the "parts" attempting to suggest how the other "parts" would relate beneficially? That may work, but how well and how long will that work?
If there are no parts in reality, then how is it that so much verbiage is strewn about this garden, as if to raise one part up higher, place another lower, to affirm the existence of one part as special for knowing it doesn't exist, or to affirm the special nonspecialness of a part for knowing pure existence? I suggest that all of this haphazardly strewn verbiage eventually decomposes and becomes the fertilizer for organic verbiage that is beneficial and cleanses the air.
Gene seems to have proposed a theory that might help make sense of the verbiage garden that grows here.
Gene: I am attempting to point out that for most humans, all decisions are made on the priority of _keeping the original _identity_. This original identity (not to be confused with 'original nature', which itself precedes identity) is our 'ticket of acceptance' to family and to society. To lose identity is equated with psychosis; it is probably the most stress-producing event a person can experience.
Dan: So, some may be evading personality/identity disintegration while being attracted to the philosophy of personality/disintegration. Others may be building a personality on ideas about no-personality, an identity of specialness based on the idea of having no identity. Still others may be maintaining an "I am right" identity by taking the position of ultimate truth, or being beyond relative true or false. Yet all of these poses are simply the human being attempting to avoid disintegration, perpetuate existence, and achieve significance. Very natural. The breaking apart of self and world can only occur as a chick breaks out of the egg - when the shell has weakened sufficiently, the newborn feels strong enough, and there is readiness. So all of the thrashings and strewn verbiage can be viewed as pangs of birth.
Gene: Yes. Held criteria validate the 'owner'. Remember that the 'owner' is a character in a dream, and because the identity of the 'owner' is valid only in the dream, the 'owner' is heavily invested in maintaining the dream. Hitting upon others with emotion-producing word-attacks is the attempt to include others in one's 'family way' trance. Once this family is properly identified, the 'father' and the 'scapegoat' instantly materialize; the vertical rankings of family hierarchy will appear, to the extent that each member reacts in such a way as to stabilize or protect identity.
Dan: We do see attacks and counter attacks that create emotional "pull" and a family scenario with roles based on words. This does not seem far-fetched here.
Your statement of 'hypnotic trance' is accurate; world-dream identity (which is the only kind of identity) depends NOT ONLY upon individual trance, but also, on the cooperation of all other dreamers to _remain in trance_. It is only the collective trance which can be called the 'world-dream'. The world-dream is a transpersonal trance, and the 'vast tacit conspiracy' to maintain this collective dream, is what we call 'society'. Historically, we see vivid examples of what happens to anyone who attempts to awaken masses of people, let alone individuals. That is why I favor the idea of 'awakening to the dream' rather than 'awakening FROM the dream'. As is cogently pointed out in several spiritual traditions, there is no-one to awaken 'from the dream'.
Dan: The idea that one must awaken is part of the trance. The intent to stay asleep is part of the trance. Only awakeness is non-trance. Many verbal formats are ways to keep the trance going, to reinduct those whose trance slips. Some verbal formats move toward awakeness and back toward trance in the same paragraph. No verbal format can serve fully as catalyst to awakeness, as processing verbal statements requires a degree of trance, even to "get" the meaning. However, words are great catalysts because they are so integral to the trance. Of course, many other non-word events can be great catalysts, too. Timing and readiness are more important than the particular catalyst.
Aware of the factors of identity-trance, both individual and collective, our movements become guided less and less by _criteria_ and become more and more a matter of conscious choice. Eventually, we become aware that the pain of the sufferers within the trance of the world-dream, is an emanation of the original agreements which resulted in _accepetance_ into family and society. Acceptance of an _arbitraily assigned position of inferiority_ is a bad agreement to make. Acceptance of the 'scapegoat' position is even more painful.
Dan: And the orginal trance factor - acceptance of the idea of "positioning", that there is a body and space-time within which a self can be positioned. That trance factor is the basis for the development of the rest of the trance reality.
Certain cultures maintain 'rites of passage', in which the painful submissiveness of the child is exchanged for equality in the world of aware adults. Our western cultures seem to lack this event of disposing of interim identity, thus dooming members of our cultures to perpetual warfare in the fight for dominance. Remember, it is one who assumes the reality of identity, who seeks to change that identity. We can fight among ourselves for the identity of supremacy, OR we can give up the need for identity.
Dan: Yes, that very struggle is evident here as in the rest of the human community.
To me attack is not justified in any form.
Perhaps we can agree to disagree on this one.
Dan: Attack, counterattack, fantasies of revenge, fantasies of superiority, the wish for invulnerability, the desire for an unassailable being. These arise together. It's not so much a matter of justification, although rationalizations abound (of dual and nondual persuasions). It's more a matter of awareness. If awareness is attached to a position, how can it *not* function defensively, in one way or another?